ALWAYS Leave a little mistake

not sure what happened to my original thread. But I gave reasons why I always leave a little mistake in my uploads. discussion is welcome.

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Looks like my post disappeared. What i did write was:
I always leave a little mistake on my playing because:

1. I respect those that punch in. I'm lazy in terms of production but I play the track till I get it almost right. I record in one take. I get tired, I get eager and I upload. I sometimes hear the goof when playing back once posted. I could re-record but it is often after midnight etc.

2. A few years ago a track i wrote and played on got stolen. The thief put it on youtube, spotify , itunes etc and tried to make money off it. It was fortunately sorted out by Dick after legal discussions.

3. Sometimes an f up can be a creative difference. So much music today is so polished. This medium of collaboration is meant to be fun and spontaneous. We are people not machines.

I found this great video by rick beato. hope it stimulates some dicussion. [youtube]cGjpseVt6pU[/youtube]

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I rant to friends about this alot.
I was at a dinner at friends recently. They had "Aquaman" up on the Tv and the kids were all wild and not paying attention and acting crazy.
Despite millions in really really bad CGI, lack of imagination in no real plot (Find the scepter of some King dude noone cares about), and Atlantians who were recycled Jar Jar Binks and Avatar with a wig rolled into one because the character drawer was lazy, it completely failed to hold their attention. It tried so hard to be loud, flashy, and fast. It was all just background noise and flashy screen changes designed to put the audience into epileptic seizure. Easily forgettable the next day.

I strolled to the DVD collection and found "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad" , a 1970's movie with Ray Harryhausen clay animation creatures that while not perfect technically, I was sure would kick "Aquamans" arse.

Despite Aquaman having multi million budget and the best computer animation money can buy, it seemed hollow and empty. Sinbad was made by people who were passionate about bringing a story to life and love of filmaking and storytelling.

Not one objection when I turned it off midway thru a badly drawn CGI action scene with explosions.

Popped in Sinbad and not a peep from the brats for 2 hours.

They were so engrossed , they didnt even hear the call for dinner. They ate glued to the movie that was done with passion and imagination rather then computer generated crap.

[youtube]TsZzfQNzKMk[/youtube]

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Great point Little Wing. As much as I love them, there's often too much going on in those action sci-fi films. A bit like the overproduced music of our times.

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It applies to what you say about music and even art and sculpture as well.....its about the humanism. Electronic music can be human but most often the music, movies and paintings today I believe are made as "lowest commen denominator mass consumption product" (most often appealing to human natures negativity and vulgerist offensive emotions and mannerisms. I.E. ...low class fart jokes, songs about "my ho has a big booty", paintings made with urine or feces, "I hate your religion or politics so I will write a song or TV show mocking you ...etc...etc....etc...)and a majority doesnt LIFT the human spirit but rather drags it down.

All art I believe should be abvout lifting human spirit and reaching out to touch others hearts and souls. Maybe happy, maybe sad at times, it should be reaching out whether its flawed or has mistakes with the intention of lifting others UP...it should be simple expression that connects us all , not divides by preaching or lecturing down, chastizing ,assaulting and intentionally offending is the current fashion of the month.

I dont blame technology for that, I blame desensitized persons who dont create for the passion of human expression and achievement but rather for "product" and "profit".

Like I said Frank...this is a huge rant I have with friends. Maybe its all a reflection of who we all are as a society nowadays. But then again I see the Loops and all the young musicians on Youtube and get inspired again that there are those who do make music , art and painting for the positive and right reasons.To uplift or show what human ability can achieve rather then stroke their egos or glorify the negative aspects in todays world.

Anyway....enough ranting ...need to get back to music!.....

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Leaving mistakes and not polishing is interesting, I have good and bad feel about it especially here, since it is jaming. But I've noticed, if you're on a roll and share one perfection after another in no time, attention dies off a little. Lot more if it's solo sequencer & metal probably.

When my first noteable stuff went online, there was a lot listens, and just little feedback, but I didn't mean to show off skills, it was ideas, and I told everyone to use it for whatever. If there is any commercial use, I don't care, I shouldn't have gone public if I regret it then. I rather cheer them to make something big or even bigger.
Even at Wikiloops, you can't deny people get inspired and go for the money. I'm glad you are save now with the song, not sure how you feel about it, but thanks to mister-producer Richard for the rescue. Though, it's kind a compliment one of your jams was stolen for cash B)

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ha ha laughing at myself,I just suck. Thanking God and Dick for Wikiloops. here I can have great musicians help me sound better:) thanks all👍

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https://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-56627.php This was the track they tried to steal.

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Supjax , if they wanted to make something bigger or better they could have done it on wikiloops Iike we all do or if publishing elsewhere ask for permission. I’m a reasonable guy, I might have said yes. That’s just common decency. To find out someone has stolen our intellectual property is a crime.

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Hey Guys.

So many time I was rally determinated to record a perfect track. For me as total amateur, that was obvious. Ofcourse there are a lot of options to fix the timing or false notes, but this is absolutely not my point, because:
- I'm here to improve my skills and have good fun - first of all;
- I'm not a fan of any track manipulations to hide our lack of skills;
- WIKILOOPS is a community that's very friendly to amateurs like me, so I feel that I don't need to pretend nothing.

Besides, I always record my own tracks as a "mastershoot" (sorry...I don't know the right word for that - in Polish it sounds "for 100"). For me if You are composer/producer You have to be able to play your compositions by yourself without any cuttings. And You know what? I'm jamming from time to time with some music producers (on Akai MPC, Maschine, etc.), and I see that just because I'm determined to strongly follow this way, when I'm in my own world during the playing, I don't have to be focused about controlling my hands/fingers anymore. Finally I can be focused only on the music. Anyway playing live forgives little bit more than recording in studio.

Concluding...
Except for all the arguments above... If You're amateur like me and You're focused just to upload perfect add/template and get a thumbs, remember that in live situation only one thing You will able to do, is a push play putton on Your DAW (pay attention for count-in).

To tell You the truth. I came to this conclusion relatively recently. Actually, it was while I was studying the Logic Pro X tutorials. When guy from video was explaining the operations of the "HUMANIZE" option, I asked to myself. What the hell? I'm a human who makes mistakes. Why should I use my computer to make mistakes for me? ;-)



Another thread I'd like to raise here... using LOOPS.
Of course there is nothing wrong with that if you are a legal user of your software but I think the musicians here, should point out the fact of using a ready-made rhythm section or any other track not being their own composition. I think it would be fair for those who spend long hours working on the single articulation and note.

Of course I also use loops (percussions etc.), but I try to make sure that loops are not the basic inspiration for my composition. And I repeat one more tme... If others do it, there is nothing wrong with it for me, as long as I am informed about it...

What You think... A, I wrong???

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An interesting point, Frank! I'll be honest though, I don't leave mistakes on tracks by design, I just make lots of mistakes full stop! See my forum signature!

I let 'mistakes' through if the track has enough freshness and energy that it overrides any desire to 'get it right'. In my experience - and I'm honestly not trying to sound arrogant - drums really, really can make or break a track and good-feeling drums will surpass any minor errors. A bad drummer can kill a band, no matter how good the rest are. And, given today's 'perfect' music that's everywhere, the challenge facing amateur players is far greater than it used to be. Perfection is the norm and those who don't make a living from it just do not have the time to get 'good enough'... :(

My playing focus changed radically many years ago. I went from 'how cool and clever can I be?' to 'how can I make what I play the best fit I can?' This shift in approach changed my playing forever. I now focus on making it feel good and fit in as best I can. Yes I frill about a lot, but my focus is always on 'belonging' to the track. It's about feel, groove and subtlety. As one of my early drum teachers said, "if you can do a gig and no one notices you, you've done your job right". So true.

Nevertheless, I expect high standards of myself, mostly because drums is the only thing I can genuinely claim to be better than average at and I will not rest until I'm satisfied I'm 'good enough' in my mind. My early loops were straight takes but these days, as a rule, I play until I cock up, rewind a bit and carry on. It's all about belonging to the track for me - get it feeling good, that's what will win out in the end.

To err is to be human. No matter how clever AI becomes, it will always follow a set of predetermined rules. The 'analogue' variance in every one of us is what makes us groove. Feel is something that is uniquely human. Most modern music needs to listen to this fact; by compressing and quantising the life out of their music in the pursuit of the perfect track - and then going back and 'Humanising' it - they actually defy the very thing music represents.

As always, commercial interests always come before all else. Ultimately, listen to the greatest albums in the world and they have one of two things in common:

1) The record company just left them to it and let them be musicians. They took a risk!

2) The band is big enough that they can do what they want.

The modern, accountant-driven world of music will continue to stifle creativity in pursuit of cash and plaudits. All the 'greatest', most-creative and ground-breaking albums in the world are 'old' (i.e. pre-2000). Despite the advent of home recording and self-publishing, the best music just can't be heard over the popularity contests that pervade Spotify, et al.

It's a sad irony that with nearly all the worlds music available to all of us and just a click away, our musical horizons are being narrowed by cash-driven playlists.

And this is where Wikiloops comes in - no commercial pressures, just pure creativity. I'm here because I love playing and I love musical creativity and variety. There's nowhere else out there that can hold a candle to Wikiloops' pure music ethos.

I'm here first and foremost for my enjoyment. If someone 'steals' my track, I consider it a compliment although I'd prefer them to ask and, as a rule, everyone has. If they steal it and make money from it then, like you, no way sunshine and I'll have it shut down or demand any money made is donated to Wikiloops. My work is and always will be free for everyone here and it's compliment enough that people like it enough to want to join in.

If Loopers want to use my performances outside the loops, then you only have to ask. I will never say no. If it makes you money then all I ask is 'my' share is given to the Loops.

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So true Martin. I need to clarify my initial point. I don’t put mistakes in by design, rather I leave them in if the feel is there or if it is just good enough and I don’t have the energy left to re do the take.
Like you Martin, my playing and philosophy changed years ago too. It’s about the song. I became more of a minimalist in some songs and occasionally letting loose if the song lends itself to it.

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I agree totally Frank...sometimes lil mistakes end up not mistakes in the overall sound and outcome..sometimes they give a unique unexpected flavor!! Also, sometimes a mistake is unpalatable and annoying enough it must be removed...Often enough though a mistake can be a gift...from seemingly beyond.

All my adds pretty much are mistake ridden...lol not the best but hearing others and doing adds is a blast..

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LOL this is a hilarious perspective, I love it.

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"If you really cared and put in the effort you would make sure every song you do is flawless to the best of your ability"
I thought that way about myself for a while. In fact, I've spent my whole life trying to be perfect and reach my own unobtainable expectations in many arenas outside of music, too. I wonder if people will abandon me if I show to much of my vulnerability and mistakes feel vulnerable. I have abandoned myself on account of such fears. And lets not forget this mind trick: Okay, I'll be vulnerable but only if I'm perfect at it! Whaaaa?

But then, I think about report cards. I resented report cards when I was in school because I didn't feel a single letter or numerical grade represented the hard work I put in. It didn't represent the journey, the true meat of learning, that which makes knowledge into wisdom. I think the same is true of my music. Recordings capture one moment in time. You can put all the nice moments together but it doesn't make them any more valid than the moments where a note cracked or the tone was off or a beat was late or whatever. The magic is in the life and journey of the song, that is what's undeniable even by my perfection-obsessed pea-brain.

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[quote]PierreOghi wrote:
Hey Guys.

So many time I was rally determinated to record a perfect track. For me as total amateur, that was obvious. Ofcourse there are a lot of options to fix the timing or false notes, but this is absolutely not my point, because:
- I'm here to improve my skills and have good fun - first of all;
- I'm not a fan of any track manipulations to hide our lack of skills;
- WIKILOOPS is a community that's very friendly to amateurs like me, so I feel that I don't need to pretend nothing.

Besides, I always record my own tracks as a "mastershoot" (sorry...I don't know the right word for that - in Polish it sounds "for 100"). For me if You are composer/producer You have to be able to play your compositions by yourself without any cuttings. And You know what? I'm jamming from time to time with some music producers (on Akai MPC, Maschine, etc.), and I see that just because I'm determined to strongly follow this way, when I'm in my own world during the playing, I don't have to be focused about controlling my hands/fingers anymore. Finally I can be focused only on the music. Anyway playing live forgives little bit more than recording in studio.

Concluding...
Except for all the arguments above... If You're amateur like me and You're focused just to upload perfect add/template and get a thumbs, remember that in live situation only one thing You will able to do, is a push play putton on Your DAW (pay attention for count-in).

To tell You the truth. I came to this conclusion relatively recently. Actually, it was while I was studying the Logic Pro X tutorials. When guy from video was explaining the operations of the "HUMANIZE" option, I asked to myself. What the hell? I'm a human who makes mistakes. Why should I use my computer to make mistakes for me? ;-)



Another thread I'd like to raise here... using LOOPS.
Of course there is nothing wrong with that if you are a legal user of your software but I think the musicians here, should point out the fact of using a ready-made rhythm section or any other track not being their own composition. I think it would be fair for those who spend long hours working on the single articulation and note.

Of course I also use loops (percussions etc.), but I try to make sure that loops are not the basic inspiration for my composition. And I repeat one more tme... If others do it, there is nothing wrong with it for me, as long as I am informed about it...

What You think... A, I wrong?? The Humanize function in music software was put in not to implant mistakes it was suppose to add a human feel to the music . A computer can't do that like the way a guitar player strums or plays notes etc it hard to explain hope u know what I mean . Also humanize was for Midi files to give them a human feel
Every player has their own style their own way of playing something.
Their own soul :W

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Also just a word on loops .
Looping is the biggest n main resource in the music industry .
Hundreds of companies make a living from selling loops compilations.
Most of them grant you a licence on the use of these loops on your purchase.
Looping is not new it has been used in the making of music since the early days of rock n roll .
Its a production tool like all other things in music.
To believe that music is only made solely from all live musicians is a naive one . Not saying you believe that )
But inspiration to produce n make music comes from many different source's .Michael Jackson is a good example his music was put together from loops from various sources live musicians ,computer software ,and other peoples loops . Quincy Jones is on the record of accusing Jackson of steeling ideas from other musicians and not giving them any credit or share in his productions.
As purely a vocalist and lyricist I do not have the luxury of just picking up a guitar and writing a riff .
A vocalist works by finding a loop or arrangement of a song and listening over n over n putting lyrics to it.
This is why Wikiloops is such a great resource for a singer

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Yes Wikiloops is a place where musicians can jam with each other and that is the founding ideals of Wiki.
But jamming in the old days was time when a band etc practiced,created and perfected their sound weeding out the mistakes to get a slick professional sound .
Don't get me wrong god knows my own music is full of mistakes and sometimes can take u in other direction which can improve the song .
But I know some will not like what I say but to fall into the habit of ignoring your mistakes will only lead to you not becoming a better musician.
Sorry I had to say it.
I have been singing and performing in various bands since I was 16 and if you get up and play a set full of mistakes the crowd knows it .
Jamming is your tool to pick up your mistakes take note of them and improve.
That's the difference between a professional n amateur musician.
A professional learns corrects their mistakes
Never get into the habit of accepting mistakes it will kill your growth.

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on the subject of errors:

I have never claimed that you should not improve your technique by working on imperfections. In my opinion, however, going to the other extreme does not serve the growth. I can't count how many remixes I didn't publish because the ratio of imperfection was too great for me. Whether it's about playing or the insufficiently sounding MIX.
Of course, we should all strive for perfection, but we must be aware that not many of us will be close. I also realize that many professional musicians have not reached the level at which a sound director during a recording session can indulge in carefree nose picking. Recently, during a conversation with one of the best engineers in my country, I heard that out of several dozen vocalists, whose recordings he performs regurally, only one has skills at this level, that there is absolutely no need to interfere in the tracks with AUTOTUNE.

All these experiences and conversations have led me to the conclusion that on a website such as WIKILOOPS, you should play your instrument as best you can... And that's it... Draw conclusions, try to improve what didn't work out. Maybe next time you will be able to avoid mistakes. Personally, as an extreme idealist, I am against interfering in the recorded tracks in order to mask imperfections such as false note or bad timing. I don't record my own tracks, creating a separate file for the chorus, verses, bridges.
I think that in the final phase of the recording of their own tracks, every amateur, only in this way is able to learn to play the whole song.

I write it all because the easy access to advanced recording technology, which we didn't have ourselves, makes the young generation very often take shortcuts, because it's easier to artificially mask their imperfections than to try to eliminate them.


I'll give you a life example:I recently worked as a sound engineer, on a small concert, young hip-hop bands, on a very limited sound system. A duo of young rappers had just had a tryout/soundcheck. In one moment it was a melancholic recitation of their lyrics, and after a while there was a chorus in which both of them yelled their faces at the whole city. It was quite difficult to control this mess, so that the listeners wouldn't get rid of misunderstood gibberish on the one hand, and serious acoustic demage on the other.
After soundcheck, I kindly asked them if they needed anything else.
In response, I heard that if I don't have a decent compressor at my disposal, there's nothing I can do. I had a terrible laugh because I don't remember any of the musicians I knew having access to any professional equipment to improve the end result at the beginning of their adventure with music. In response, I told those young guys that if they first learned how to run compressors powered by their own throats, then we could talk about the use of electrically powered compressors.

Then it was the turn of a completely young boy, who was so stoned that I don't even know if he had eyes.The boy was so musical and naturally talented that I could leave the volume controls alone and take care of his vocals with the delays and reverbs available to me.

As it turned out, the basis of his work was the contact with the microphone and a piece of paper in the garage, and not recording 70 tracks, from which in the end one is assembled in the finest detail.

I'm sorry, but I definitely prefer to listen to something imperfect than to be deceived by someone who can boast about his work and let me play it on youtube, than even imperfectly, but still sing it.

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