Self promotion???

OK now that we have established Wikiloops is a free speech zone, I will use my free speech to bump down any self promotion in shoutbox by posting 5 comments every time I see it. JUST MY FREE SPEECH. nothing you can do to stop me right? Just be tolerant of me clearing the shoutbox every time I see an advertisement.

---

Please, nobody will respect you more or understand you better because of this. So to me it looks quite counterproductive

---

Nobody has any respect for me or what I want as it is what difference does it make Nilton? You're the one who was bothered by it, so now I tried to help shed light and bring change just to be told to be quiet and deal with it by everyone including you. This place has gone mad.

I'm thinking I don't want to spend time here anymore.

---

Yes, i started the subject from about the same perspective, namely that one should follow common practice and common sense....

---

I keep the shout box closed every time I come on. As for self promotion, I myself haven't done it, but I'm fine with others that do. It's a great way for newer, or less popular members on the site to be heard, and have criticism provided to them. Because lets be honest, there are cliques here, and a lot of people aren't being followed by others, so they often go unheard. Someone said use the comments, or provide the criticism privately. I think doing it privately is a bad idea. The reason I'm against it being done privately, is because if one person is doing it, you can bet the bank that others are, thus critiquing in publicly can potentially help everyone that reads it.

---

That to me sounds like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, and a great way to miss out on some potentially good music.

This isn't directed at you, but is a general statement. As musician's we constantly self promote our bands, and our work. Professionals do it all the time, only it's called marketing, and advertising. For amateur/local musicians self promotion is even more important, because it's an even bigger struggle to get heard. Though I don't self promote, this whole anti self promotion really sounds more to me like, "now people won't go listen to my tracks" If most people just check the people they're following from their profile, and rarely check out the main page, then why care if people self promote. You're still going to hear what you want, and jam on what you want anyway. It doesn't effect your music one bit.

---

Sith lord you got a valid point on private criticism and I would like to add: In public you might even get a discussion. A point someone criticize, maybe loved by a few others.

In public you get a better overlook, if it is general or a personal opinion.

---

Agreed. Too many people take criticism as a personal attack, instead of what it is, advice on how to potentially how to make something better. We're all musicians, and criticism comes with the territory. Always has, always will when it comes to the arts, and if we can't handle it without getting butt hurt, then it's time we found a new craft.

---

One of the definetely sadest sign of our current time is the fact that [i]how[/i] you say something is much more important than [i]what[/i] you actually are saying

---

This has got a bit "testy". I've got to admit I don't promote myself in the shout box. Well, to be honest I don't spend much time there anyway. There are
changing dynamics to wikiloops with increasing numbers of members and posts. As an older (decrepit?) member I don't worry about who (if anyone) listens to my tracks.
Seems like they get listened to anyway. I do feel a combination of sympathy and pity for those who are trying to get noticed...not the best of emotions to stir
when/if trying to impress. It's probably true that it could take a year or more before I'd notice a special talent and it's likely that would be via their performing
a track with someone I'm following.

Some people here seem to have lots of time to devote to listening and playing. My reality is that I don't. I just want to listen to people I know are going to be
producing high quality music. I don't see any way to change this and certainly (as said) feel for new members who want recognition. I'm sure it won't be any relief,
yet will say hang in there. If you've got the goods you will eventually get noticed.

---

Maybe it's a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlZM_mwIEX4

---

So you make a substantial income out of wikiloops?? I wonder.

In my world bragging in front of peers and colleagues is considered something else...

---

Me has so far never bothered when someone his new song posting in the shoutbox, I have even done already from time to time. What's so wrong to do that.
Wikiloops gets bigger and bigger, since the survey is partly lost.
For a newcomer, it is certainly not easy here to get attention. Unfortunately, I'm also one of those who operate almost exclusively on their own profile page, which is why I am actually quite grateful when I sometimes see a new name in the shoutbox of posts a jam there, in this way I have been to one or other artists hear here.

Honestly, I have no problem with it.
Perhaps a second shoutbox would be a solution only for music links?

Please excuse my Google Translator-English

---

Bragging?? I really start to get annoyed by the holier than holy stance, seriously. When I hear expression such as "promoting" and "bragging", I am seriously getting annoyed by THAT.

I have on occasion posted a link of a new track that I uploaded, it was not bragging and not shamelessly promoting, it was just saying basically "I uploaded a new track, have a listen". That's all. Anybody who has ever met me, talked to me or just chatted online to me knows that I am not a bragger, promoter or whatever. I am not perfect by all means, but I am not these things. But still I posted my little song on the shoutbox.

There are people in this world who like to complain about every little thing. Kids being noisy during mid day sleeping hour, people not parking their cars perfectly parallel, people being happy about their song and wanting someone to listen to it and maybe give them a like.

When I hear some of the argumentation here, and see who takes what side, dear oh dear oh dear.

In my world, being a nitpicker (Korinthenkacker) is not considered a good thing either. I thought this site was supposed to be about music, and being happy about it, not arguing about crap like that.

Someone here might win this argument with well thought responses, eloquate replies and responses, quotes and all. I know what the response is going to be, and that depresses me, seriously. Rockn'n roll y'all :(

---

TeeGee...amen!

---

My keywords were peers and colleagues, not bragging or promoting. What i was reacting to to was the notion that this is a place to compete and market oneself instead of being an alternative to that. If that inspires certain people here to call me a hater that would say more about them then about me.

---

I rest my case.

---

OK, time for someone "official" like me to sum up and hopefully end this discussion, which seems to have more potential for depressing people than anyone participating in it was intending.

What can be beautifully observed in this thread is how easily communication does go wrong if you only communicate by internet, across generations and nations, and fill up the "blanks" of what you don't know with (often rather unpleasant) assumptions.

Is everyone who ever posted their track to the shoutbox intending to "brag"? Certainly not.
Do some individuals tend to do it in a way that lets one feel annoyed? Yes, that does happen at times.
Can we be sure these individuals are really out to annoy us? Nope, no certainty on that.

Is a thread like this one likely to let people re-think their use of the shoutbox? I would think so, and that is why it was worth having it.

Is it likely to find a common "solution" to something which only seems to be a problem to half of us if we continue this discussion? I'm affraid not.

If you are in the "I think its a problem" group, i'd like to remind you that reading the shoutbox is not mandatory.
If you are in the "I don't think its a problem" group, I'd like to ask you to at least recognize that suggesting ones own songs in the shoutbox is not letting you be perceived in a great way by everybody. There may be other ways of getting the desired audience, even by using the shoutbox, but its up to you to integrate yourself (here's what Nilton called "common sense").
If you happen to be in the "Yeah, it does get a little too much sometimes, but hey, who cares?" group, I'd like to wish you happy jamming on wikiloops.

---

Excellent summary Dick, thank you.

---

thank you Dick, I do not write much more.
I mostly promote music from other, were I think it is to good to be in the cellar and will be forgot.
I will activate this treat, if Shi forgot to offer tee and coffee and no one will say hello only to say hello

nice to be here
Lothar

---