Groovy ways to learn

posted on #1
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Here is the link to a comical but enlightening drumming video . That music is fluid borrowing and giving across other musical styles at least with percussion. https://youtu.be/KnAn-p3UWUE
posted on #2
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Nice vid. Although the comments make sobering reading. Too many people out there are too busy getting worked up about some kind of non-existent affront to the music they like! It's like arguing over religion - which is best? :|

Music is music. Genre is because people need everything pigeonholing so they can decide what's good or bad without actually listening to it. Musicianship is how well a player connects and blends in with their music. There is no competition.

Good-humoured and fun video marred by morons with an opinion, a keyboard and, sadly, an internet connection.
If you make a mistake, do it again and make it look like you meant to do it!
posted on #3
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Hi Martin yes I was sober when I wrote that. I respect each type of music for its Style. The point was no one music is greater or better than the other. You can play Fast Jazz and you can play fast metal. Do believe in competition though. You're not chosen for a band because you're bad. I don't believe everything is at the level of whiplash, the movie but you have to have your A game. Is one drummer better because he can play faster with more fills Etc in the eyes many ,yes he's considered better. It doesn't take away from simpler drumming though. Case in point for me is Shumdrummer on wikiloops. Do I think I can play better metal than him not for a minute. If there was a competition. There is a drummer on YouTube by the name of Jared Dines. His goal is to spoof everything in metal music. I don't think we should take ourselves too serious. I watched a Derek Roddy drum lesson the other day. Great drummer his claim to fame is metal drumming couldn't be a humbler guy. Just have to keep your perspective as a musician performer. Yes I agree religion is a different story. Although, in the end it's the one that gets you into heaven that counts.
posted on #4
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Drumshticks wrote:
Hi Martin yes I was sober when I wrote that. I respect each type of music for its Style. The point was no one music is greater or better than the other. You can play Fast Jazz and you can play fast metal. Do believe in competition though. You're not chosen for a band because you're bad. I don't believe everything is at the level of whiplash, the movie but you have to have your A game. Is one drummer better because he can play faster with more fills Etc in the eyes many ,yes he's considered better. It doesn't take away from simpler drumming though. Case in point for me is Shumdrummer on wikiloops. Do I think I can play better metal than him not for a minute. If there was a competition. There is a drummer on YouTube by the name of Jared Dines. His goal is to spoof everything in metal music. I don't think we should take ourselves too serious. I watched a Derek Roddy drum lesson the other day. Great drummer his claim to fame is metal drumming couldn't be a humbler guy. Just have to keep your perspective as a musician performer. Yes I agree religion is a different story. Although, in the end it's the one that gets you into heaven that counts.


Sorry Drumshticks! I wasn't referring to your comments, I was referring to the 'sobering' argumentative comments on YouTube! But yes, you're absolutely right.
If you make a mistake, do it again and make it look like you meant to do it!
posted on #5
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Lol I saw that too :D
One thing is sure, generally comments on youtube are shocking, I have seen some really disgusting things there. That's why I like it here, much nicer people :)

Yeah nice video though, quite funny. I am not really a metal fan, but I got to say that some of the drumming in metal is mental, really cool. Love the sound and the energy they have there sometimes.
posted on #6
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I don't even think I read the comments on YouTube. I was so focused on hearing these two great drummers. Yes the trolls that hang out on Facebook and YouTube I just ignore. I'm fine Martin no offense taken. I like all forms / style of drumming. Recently I've been doing a lot of YouTube viewing. Heard a metal drummer the other day talk about using the polka beat in metal. I thought about that for a minute and laughed. No stuff they really do use a polka beat. Picked up on some of the other metal guru's drumming. They were saying they use swing and Jazz licks in there playing. This is to make it more enjoyable rather than
Just thrash Beats. I am all about Fusion drumming. Who says you need to play a certain Groove for a song. I think it really pushes the drummer to learn to be creative. Putting what would normally not fit in and making it work. I remember the first time I heard Stanton Moore. I was blown away. So much cool drumming stuff in the measure.

Personally I hate competing. I just try to give it my best. Definitely in the nature of guys, men is to compete. The one up on game . Comparisons hurt but they also push us to learn more and do better. I can remember listening to high school drummers that were way ahead of their time in Talent. High School bands were big a deal when I was coming up . Heard one band the name of it was pranks . They were playing space trucking, the purple, vintage Trower and early Phil Collins The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. They weren't 18 years old yet. I thought to myself how long will it take me to get there. Never allowed
Myself to be discouraged just pushed ahead. For me ,the big 60 starts in December. For younger less experienced drummers on the wiki, stay with it. I'm not Yoda but I have my share of wrinkles.

I should share my funny music store stories on the next forum .
Edited by Drumshticks on Ottobre 11 2018 19:03
posted on #7
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It's often fascinating to hear where some of these amazing playing ideas come from. The famous 'Roseanna' beat, in part, came from Jeff Porcaro integrating the 'Bo Diddley' beat on the kick drum!

It's one of the reasons, like you, I find Stanton Moore so fascinating - the way he fuses 'standard' beats with new and fantastic interpretations!

I was lucky enough to see Galactic perform (when Corey Glover was guest vocalist - double win!) at the House Of Blues in Boston a few years ago. Sadly, they rarely, if ever, come to the UK :( . Stanton Moore just blew my mind and have been hooked ever since.

Still need to work through his Groove Alchemy book my other half bought me for Christmas though!

As for competing: indeed it's pointless. If someone does it 'better' than you, just learn from it and take it as a positive. Like most things in life, in music there is no right or wrong, just different ways of getting to the same place.
Edited by mpointon on Ottobre 12 2018 13:18
If you make a mistake, do it again and make it look like you meant to do it!
posted on #8
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And, as another point of note (for me, at least): Metal owes rock which owes rock and roll which owes blues which owes jazz which owes ragtime. And so on. People forget that the music they love ironically comes from the music they often claim to hate!
If you make a mistake, do it again and make it look like you meant to do it!
posted on #9
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Hey this is cool. Good one!

Yes, most metal drummers have studied jazz hence why they are often technically outstanding. It sounds strange because on the surface they appear to be poles apart from a music point of view...but are they?

As you are aware, Jazz originates from Africa, from Ghana :-

From African music, jazz got its:

rhythm and "feel"
"blues" quality
tradition of playing an instrument in your own expressive way, making it an "extension" of your own human voice

From European music, jazz got its:

harmony -- that is, the chords that accompany the tunes (the chords played on the piano); jazz harmony is similar to classical music's harmony
instruments -- most of the instruments used in jazz originated in Europe (saxophone, trumpet, piano, etc.)

Musical improvisation came from both traditions.

As African drumming is usually polyrhythmic, it is then very clear to see why the link to Jazz is apparent in metal drumming.

And yes, Stanton Moore is fabulous. I have one of his books.:D
posted on #10
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Glad you joined in. Great points made. Yes Stanton Moore is out of the box on his drumming Style. It would be easy to say that he doesn't keep a Groove he keeps grooves at the same time. He has a wonderful sense of limb Independence while playing. I was watching the dream theater auditions grom a couple years back. This is drumming at its best. Based more less in progressive metal but with everything in the world thrown in. In the day I used to be a big Dixie Dregs fan. Saw them live numerous times. Talk about Fusion going on.
Edited by Drumshticks on Ottobre 12 2018 22:00
posted on #11
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The dream theater auditions made my jaw hit the floor. Because the ‘failures’ were still on a level I’m not even allowed to dream of!
If you make a mistake, do it again and make it look like you meant to do it!
posted on #12
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Not Dream Theatre fan, or a drummer (obviously!) but those drummer auditions were really interesting. Links for anyone who wants to check them out...

Pt1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ3DMDxdpfM
Pt2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiDZKY96H9Y
Pt3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2kIVOr1VPk
posted on #13
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[quote]GrooveEnth wrote:
Not Dream Theatre fan, or a drummer (obviously!) but those drummer auditions were really interesting. Links for anyone who wants to check them out...

Funny... I’ve seen these videos last week !
posted on #14
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Okay guys and gals...

Just another little add to this post about "Groovy ways to learn"

This really only applies to a drumming point of view (but I guess could apply to other instruments)..but here is some stuff that I came across on my path to becoming a failed musician :)...

1 - The 25 best drumming books as voted by modern drummer magazine

This covers every area of drumming from rudiments, to 4 way independance, to jazz to afro cuban etc etc etc...Carmine Appice - Realistic Rock, Joe Morello - Master Studies, David Garibaldis Future Sounds, and Gary Chesters The New Breed which incorporates your vocal as a 5th limb and gives endless possibilities...get the whole bunch and work through them!!

2 - Learn African, Latin and Indian drumming methods, which use odd time, different rhythms and feels to European music. Indian music theory is completely different to western music and utilises your voice to form the notation. I learnt the tabla and have a set which isn't easy to play, but again expands your musical options. African drumming is often polyrhythmic and learning this which again challenging further adds to your creative options and horizons. Then check out various albums on Youtube to understand it further, like Ravi Shankars The Three Ragas, or Antonio Carlos Jobims Wave (wonderful) etc etc etc.

3 - for drummers who dont play any percussion, do so! grab a tambourine, claves, shakers and learn some patterns - this really is another step and fun way to understand rhythm more deeply in my view. Its surprising how much a tambourine can lift a chorus on a track.

4 - Buy a load of dvds, Jojos Modern Techniques, Tommy Igoes Groove Essentials, or Rick Lathams Advanced funk studies..for the sake of what is cheaper than one drum lesson, your getting about 20 drum lessons for £15! Lots of fun, lots of advice - a must for any drummer!

And lastly..

5 - explore other genres! Don't just stick to tired old rock music! get out the box and try something new! We all love rock and roll, but why not have a dabble in something new - like some of the crap I've done! Electronica? Write a silly movie track! Never tried Dub before? why not?? Its been proven by scientific research that the brain has a reward system and rewards you when it hears new sounds.

6 - Yeh ok, jam on wikiloops! Amazing what you can learn from people on here - and its Groovy Baby! :)

Peace :W
Edited by pconey on Ottobre 13 2018 21:09
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