Guitar solos - how long? Phrasing? Quieeeet!!!!!

i really enjoyed A Star Is Born, such a cool movie and story, raw as well.

we had a saying/motto for our engineering club, "no deposit, no return". if you don't put anything into it, don't expect to get anything back :) applies to many things, music included.

---

In fact, if you have a sense of rhythm and melody, no one will blame you for playing for a long time, quite the contrary!
[youtube]cxmoaOv6j6Y?si=zL3ruKUwYz5bMnz0[/youtube]

---

Tru Dat

I really liked Bradleys Star Is Born and seen all four. Id recommend this Lada Gaga. It is mandatory viewing for any gigging musician

When you take your eye off the prize , you lose sight of your target. Its so simple. When youve become successful and fat and bloated off rave reviews and success, you get fat and lazy then the downfall starts because you lose the passion. Also the respect for your audience which is half of the energy gheneration connection thing you kind of need to maintain having listeners for performanmce to happen.

People always say we have high divorce rates in the US. Act all confused as to why.

Easy.

One partner lost respect in the other.

IF you cheat on someone you are disrespecting the other. Respect again is the target in marriage. Take your eye off the prize you lose sight of the target.Lose respect then its over.

Is it just me that sees the obvious? I get a deer in headlights vibe from obvious concepts.

All this stuff is proveable just by doing it.

When I focus on the best upload ive had i get 2,3,4,5000 likes on tracks.

If i upload a regurgitated track I just spent 3 minutes remixing and slap it up, I get 50 in 12 hours if lucky. Thats VERY LOW from my productive period but its just a quick half assed remix I didnt really put my best effort in.
LOOK AT YOU NICK.|
YOUR STAR WAS BORN A YEAR OR TWO AGO.
Think of the period where people really noticed your music Nick.
I was there and saw it so its a rhetorical.


You learned some new stuff on Reaper and Izotope
So your confidence shot up.
You started to think "Hey I can do this and I have what I need to really jam"
You had the right attitude .

Then you started getting great feedback on vocal recording of which you are master level now (but still learning(
You went even farther with comments, likes and feedback.

NONE OF THAT WAS EVEN A CONCERN WHILE UPLOADING WAS IT?
You PUT ZERO THOUGHT INTO HOW MANY ADDS OR LIKES ..because you were having fun falling back in LOVE with music and now and couldnt wait supporting others as well aspresent your new voice to your wikiloops friend.

I SAW YOU IN LOVE WITH PLAYING ALL OVER AGAN. IT WAS CUTE AND ADORABLE.
Now look at you Mr Vocal Recording Guru.

Your mind wasnt obsessing over the superficial it was on the fucking musio and showing your best side.

Abnd things started moving , didnt they? And naturally.

Look where you were then musically and now. How much ground have you covered?

Are likes , comments and adds important and serve a purpose to gauge if you are connecting with people..ABSOLUTLEYTOOTLEYFROOTLEY!

Are they your main reason for uploading are having your name seen on one of Shis tracks so people will see you and get more adds because "Nobody adds to my track boohoo hoo!"

Oh No Way Jose..We love music and respect our musicians, our friends we dont upload halfassed crap we were being lazy on.We love our fellow wikiloopers enough to put 100% effort and passion into any performance we give even if its only three notes. They will hear in the three notes we put our best effort and played the best three notes in the history of modern music!"

We will never ever ever uttor the phrase "Its good enough" right before uplaoding because we respect other musicians not to.

Nick- NEVER EVER EVER BE THIS PERSON...
"Hi Im Amy and I was at another website, Im too lazy to listen to your tracks and too busy to jam with you but I want to impress you with old stuff from the other website so you can tell me how great I am! I wont respond to any comments left but why dont people add on my track? WAAAAAAAA!
[img]https://media.tenor.com/5CTNj1qAEUQAAAAC/ok-boomer-pampers.gif?t=AAYgXhpW7QcFCAzauQj5Tw[/img]

All this typing has wornout the keyboard I bought last month. Time for new one.Sorry for typos.

---

@LittleWing

Your keyboard is begging for mercy! :D You give, you get back... not always that simple, we're not in Disneyland. Sometimes it's more like they take something from you without notice and they don't give anything in return.

---

Forgot that and Hendrix as well but the shows and organization of the shows were a clustermess. Really disorganized. Zeppelin uwatched Cream and got the ideas of organizing a bit better although still wayyy long. Long solos were vogue at the time due to the drug. 1968 was LSD hands dowen. People WANTED LONG.Music always reflects the drug of the era.

ZEPPELIN the drug of choice that inflienced the length of solo was cocaine.Page watched Cream at the Farewell and got ideas to arrange rocker for opening number and get crowd roudy then a slower one then where to put an acoustic set.He believed if cxhoreographed and paced correctly to build a momentum crowd orgasm . Not sexually but rather everyone mind blown. And they happily spent and satisfied they had one awesome night and they felt Zeppelin for days afterward.And told all their friends.



Often times PA problem killed a bands momentum.When you are on drugs , it kills the buzz and becomes a downer. The fans are your customers and cant have that. Singer starts talking and telling jokes and things go bad fast. Usually a 7 minute downtime is disaster. You dont regain excitement the audience had before and it almost fatigues them and annoys them.

As many drugs as Keith did during a 10 year period. He never ever missed a show or was too intoxicated to play. Never ever.

Ever play a gig and mid show a bandmates amp dies. They call a roadie and hes working on it meanwhile you 6-7 minutes to fill. . They were roudy and feeling good . You are starting to be a bummer and we have 5 more minutes to fill...uh oh

Dont lose that pace of the show...

THE HISTORY OF MODERN PA SYSTEM


Now this is in general a general history and timeline of modern PA. Woodstock was testing grounds and the genisis of everything
Im facebook friends with Chip Monk who is famous for two things. Among sound engineers ...HES GOD.I hit him up and asked him every PA technical question I could think of.

While my buddies were watching porn I was talking to legends.

CHIP MONCK?

He is the voice on the PA system at Woodstock you hear in the movie.
He is the father of the modern sound and lighting system as we know today.

THANK YOU CHIP! I would normally recommending seeing if he'll accept your friend request but I believe he has ill health.This man made a huge part of rock history happen. He is a legend in Sound Engineering

He was hired by the Stones for the 1972 America tour.The first modern day tour and blueprint fort all other bands touring how to run successful consistant sound.

He invented the collapsable concert speaker columns that were huge speaker cabs designed to be easy in and out and required minimal manpower to assemble the entire Stones touring party including truck driver , roadies and the Stones and managers ...was barely 18 or so people.It was a huge success that showed everyone how to be heard clearly thruout a large cement venue.

He also invented modern day concert lighting. Again collapsible columns for setup and the lights hit mirrors then the aryist. Gave perfect even lighting , consistant. These were run seperatly by a man named David Pellitier whom I also have discussed this with. Straight from the horses mouth,

You can friend Chip , or David on facebook . David is low key and his profile does not advertise he was with stones but his photos are amazing.Chip isnt on for long periods and he has health issues which is why I requested talking to Chip and he granted me a Q and A over facebook messenger and I just wanted to know some questions about Woodstock and the Stones and he has millions of facinating stories.

THE HISTORY OF THE MODERN DAY PA

1964-66 Screaming girls for Beatles and Stones . Supplied own 4x12 cabs. Had to use whatever bullhorn speaker and amp to amplify 4 people in huge football arena size venue of screaming teeny boppers..

1966
Beatles and Stones say touring is a joke . No more tours either band.

Beatles and Stones take hiatus from touring and plan never to return due to screaming girls.


1968-70

PAs are still crap and bands like Cream and Yardbirds play huge venues using single speaker full range bullhorns. Artists at mercy of venue. Cream supplements with the stacks of Marshall on stage and few others follow. Just build a wall of guitar but still no stage monitors or nothing.Not invented.The wall of Marshalls was invented this time to overcome the crappy venue speakers.

1969

Woodstock happens. A man named Chip Monck is hired to provide the sound and he comes up with ideas like monitors for the band to hear themselves.Also the portable PA speakers bands can take with them city to city (Required truck to hauk to next show)

This is from Chip Monks albums, I have permission to take and share.
Notice speaker cabs are on hydraulic platforms for quick up and down .[img]https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/QG6MEVDL65FZ3KBPYMZTNDJ2TA.JPG[/img]
.


THE YEAR OF 1972 A SOUND IS BORN

The Rolling Stones Update PA to take to every show, easy install and improves clear sound.


THE FOLLOWING PHOTOS COMPLIMENTS DAVID PELLTIER. I HAVE PERMISSION TO SHARE.

THESE ARE PHOTOS OF THE STONES 72 STP TOUR AND THE FIRST MODERN DAY MOBILE PA AND LIGHTING SYSTEM .

-Woofers and tweeters instead of crappy venue bullhorn full range
Crossovers to divide highs and lows
Collapsable speakers and scaffolding
Power distribution later invented mid show due to Stones blew all their amps two days before tour start. Didnt account for amp difference . Wired for British power and every amp they had blew. AMPEG saved the tour by providing the Ampeg SVT as both guitar and bass amp. Stones loved the sound and the Get Yer YaYas album documents the Stones thru All Ampeg cabs.
Floor Monitors that were trialed at Woodstock now part of stage setup.

THESE PHOTOS ARE FROM A PERSONAL COLLECTION AND THEY WERE USED TO STUDY THE SEWTUP AND IMPROVE WHERE NEEDED.

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/2798/4187365169_4bbb2733b4_z.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.concertarchives.org/image_uploads/photo/image/347002/large_Spectrum_1972__4.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.tennessean.com/gcdn/-mm-/ecdcc75b78334ccb5978e5b1235c677e562bb620/c=0-184-1998-1313/local/-/media/2015/03/18/Nashville/Nashville/635622715140652264-RollingStones-06.JPG?width=700&height=396&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp[/img]

This photo you can see the speakers on the collapsible hydraulic stands,

[img]https://richzimmermann.com/media/k2/items/cache/7af0193b8351bd1eb04c09dfe5731fa3_XL.jpg[/img]
Forget you Ever saw this photo:
[img]https://morrisonhotelgallery.com/cdn/shop/files/keith-richards-coors-rolling-stones-us-tour-1972ethan-russell-917994.jpg?v=1712611990[/img]

QUICK GAME:

HOW GOOD OF A ROADIE WOULD YOU BE?

What is odd about this photo equipment wise. Imagine you are the roadie who set this up. Whats wrong with it or is there something poinmting or facing where it shouldnt be. Something is not how it is usally setup.
Dont make Mick and Keith mad they want you to identify the equipoment that is not setup normally.[img]https://www.drumforum.org/attachments/664763/[/img]

After 1977 Supertramp and Showco made a super PA.

Grateful Dead had wall of sound in 1968 but thats theres but had some interesting ideas.

FUN FACT:BY THE TIME STARTED THEIR ENCORE STREET FIGHTING MAN TEMPERATURES ON STAGE REACHED A BOILING 140 degrees F NIGHTLY! Hence the sweat flying off them in buckets.

FUN FACT!:18 people total touring crew INCLUDING STONES AND TRUCK DRIVERS.
4 hours to set up or dismantle then on to new city



[youtube]1175axY2Vvw[/youtube]

---

Answer to Quick Game challenge.

The lighting is facing out towards audience.Isnt it supposed to point at artist?

The lighting was aimed at a motorized mirror they could control and aim at the band or an individual memeber. This got rid of annoying glare in artists eyes and they werent staring at the sun. Bad point it increased stage temperatures to 140 F. Also lighhts could ne moved from floor using remote control

You were almost fired from your roadie job by Mick and Keith.But good job.

Chip Monck Inventor of the Modern PA and Lighting System and the voice of Woodstock

[img]https://plsn.com/site/wp-content/uploads/5_Woodstock3372-26-26A-CM-Voice.jpg[/img]

---

I doubt that my skill on guitar provides meaning and pleasure to the masses. However, I am not endeavoring to convey my message to billions. Some individuals will love what I create. Others will avoid it like the plague. A select few will find something beneficial that makes them return for more.

I get an opportunity to express myself to a single person that provides me their attention with a few milliseconds of their time. I get an opportunity to convey a message forged from notes. Like the song "Message in a Bottle", send out the S.O.S. - as the artist you only need to provide a message to one active listener. That individual that has listened to your message can/might/will spread your message once it has found a foothold in their psyche.

Every musician and vocalist should try and utilize their talent to maximize the message. Thus, we practice, we re-record, we master our songs to achieve perfection so that the message is as attractive to others as possible.

My reward (for me) was never monetary gain. I am merely interested in someone else listening to my message. However, I don't fault an individual for seeking additional compensation for their effort. An extremely small selection of musicians get to express their ideas to a wider audience. While I don't always enjoy other artists messages (via the song they have performed on), I always value their effort and willingness to share their enjoyment with others. I also value the opportunity to share my ideas and my messages with others.

---

Stop.
You just told a website of very talented, skilled musicians WHO WORK VERY HARD ON THEIR SKILLS from around the globe, anything you do we will not like.
If that is the attitude,
Please DO NOT upload.

Feel free to download all you want

---

mikementen wrote:
I doubt that my skill on guitar provides meaning and pleasure to the masses.

I assure you someone will like your style and playing. Wikiloops is not a measure of that...but it is a great place to expand your skills and hear how others approach things and their unique feel.
As far as musicians who "make it" and those who don't. Sometimes it is skill sometimes it is just their perseverance. So many factors but if that is what a person wants they should pursue it with everything they have. We only live once....Go for it..Having said that there are so many unknown artists who are amazing. Just be what you are and whatever it is that your looking for pursue it...Attitude makes a big difference for sure. As for tastes we all have our own likes and dislikes. It's true across the board in all of life. Some people like what ya do...Others don't....Too bad for them! ;O) AND good for them as well....I say that in jest...nothing wrong with having your own likes and dislikes....I don't expect others to always like what I do and that's okay

---

Zappa may have the best answer....

[youtube]fKMk6fcKbwE?si=ze2nrMPKiuZkqoA4[/youtube]

---

if you'd ask me, if I#d been at such a concert with 10 000 people ....who'd I wanted to be. Always one of the 10000 watching.
10000 interesting biographies.
Sorry, if I Jimmy Page was to drunken to find the toilet in the year of 1976 and found relief on a tree, there is not much that i could care less about.

For me , I do not have big musical talent. I have a daily schedule family, work, and like to enjoy my evening ...maybe smoke a spliff watch a movie, try to make some music.
I don't feel important and also nver really wanted to be.
That's for others.
What i miss at wikiloops is a bit more room for the newcomers.
People always seem to stay with what they already know.
After a warm welcome newbies are normally ignored.
Thats a bit like something I seen in a documentary about see , don't was it water lillys.
They kind of grow from the ground and when reaching the surface,
unfold their leaves ....then the leaves cover all the other plants, taking away the light...at the end there is only this single kind left in the see.
Sorry, not blaming anybody , just watching.

---

This thread is about long guitar solos - serious thread hijack :D

Wikiloops is based upon interaction, the more you interact the more people will interact with you. Yes when you are new and you uploaded a template of almost finished songs, you won't get much response. But if you upload to an existing track, and then listen to others and leave your replies, you build up friendships with people, and then the interaction begins :)

But, we are working on something to make new users experience even better, hopefully with the next big update ;)

---

A 4 minutes 28 solo....

[youtube]igFIgrrbwzs?si=EwDEwQbAbCmn4PJG[/youtube]

---

in my personal experience as a listener a Guitar solo should take as long as Mark Knopfler or Robert Cray or Eric Clapton or J J Cale are in the mood of doing so :D :D

---

I put down my 2 cents worth of thoughts in a new thread:
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=3848

---

I'm really busy with work right now but ... I want to get into all of this later today. I'm hooked on the WikiLoops crack. I agree with everyone but I see a side task. We need to educate the public here on song structure or jams. I still have a question on requirements. Are we doing jams, music production (songs), or both? And, if we're doing anything, we should be trying to talk about all this more. E.g. I'm disappointed that I did just that on a beautiful piece where I solo'ed the mess out of a beautiful jam that was also a song with a really good singer.

Anyhow, that's my quick two cents. I'll reply at length tonight.

---